Faction Report on Redemption and Lolicons (With Poll)

Discussion in 'Reports' started by Testiify, Jul 26, 2019.

?

Should Redemption be disqualified?

  1. Yes

    64.7%
  2. No

    35.3%
  1. Testiify

    Testiify New Member

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    Over the span of one day Lolicons ,( a faction that no longer exists due to its sole purpose of creation for the inside of the faction Flare) had gained $600 million worth on ftop. While Redemption was at $900 million putting both factions in /ftop 1. The leader of the faction Lolicons messaged me and said they were merging with Redemption. As I have read the rules, merging to gain ftop value while being on /ftop 1 is against the server rules. Re:5. You cannot merge factions at any point during the map if either faction is on F-Top or will get placed on F-Top by doing so


    Punishment: Disqualified from 1 week of payout and removal of merged value.

    Note: You can merge if the F-Top brought from the meeting faction is removed by a senior staff member.


    Re: 11. Giving other factions wealth


    Punishment: The factions involved will be disqualified for a week of payouts and the wealth will be removed from the map. The same punishment will also be applied if players attempt to bypass by leaving the faction and rejoining. In severe events, players can also be susceptible to a ban if they are attempting to alter F-Top and payouts.

    Note: You & your faction can not give more than $5,000,000 in any form collectively to another faction, if the faction is or will be placed on f top page 1. However, you cannot give TNT to any faction or player whatsoever. If a player gets given a stack of TNT or 1 piece on one occasion by another faction member that won’t be strikeable and whenever it comes to TNT it’ll be up to the Strike Team to decide if it’s punishable or not.

    This rule is in place to allow larger factions to give smaller factions a boost.
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    Kiet Thai and brady lanahan like this.
  2. Kiet Thai

    Kiet Thai New Member

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  3. Phoenix

    Phoenix New Member

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  4. Chaapp/Piggy

    Chaapp/Piggy New Member

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    Far already made a decision on this issue and his decision is final GL with trying this.
     

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  5. Phoenix

    Phoenix New Member

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    In the screenshot he clearly doesn't know what happened. You are wrong. You didn't inside anyone, Lolicons insided flare and then combined wealth with you to get you on ftop. You can loophole past the merge rule because you didnt invite them. Rule 11 states you cannot give more than 5 million in wealth, they gave you 600mil. In the screenshots you can see niceposter saying that he is joining you and basically said you were merging.
     
  6. Fallen

    Fallen New Member

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    I will not be putting a public +1 or -1 on this, however I want to give my personal unbiased opinion.

    Please be aware that none of this is my decision, and this is just my opinion as a player.

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    Claim 1: First, a quote.

    "The owner of a faction is the only one with a claim to it."

    Do we have precedence for this claim? Yes. When payouts are issued, they are issued to the owner of the faction, who can choose to pay out their members, or to keep it for themself. The server does NOT force the faction leader to pay the members, therefore, the faction members are not seen in the eyes of the server as responsible for any value earned. They are instead dependents of the owner.

    If you're a child, you're the dependent of your parents. You do not own anything until you reach the age of 18, or you are no longer their child (adoption, foster care, in which case someone else owns anything you own, and has permission to sell it, burn it in a fire, etc).

    Taking this back to factions, the owner of the faction owns everything, and you are their dependent. We know this because they are the only one required to be paid, as well as the only rank that cannot be promoted to a higher rank, therefore showing they are not dependent to anyone, as well as in fact the PARENT. From what I just described in real life above, they therefore own everything.

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    Claim 2: We can not only infer, but wholly understand that any value owned by the faction, belongs to the leader. Need another proof? Let's used designed thinking to find a logical necessity for this to BE fact. Confused? I'll explain.

    Instead of, "is it merging?", let's expand the question to understand the larger scope of things, and work our way down to prove that the owner owns every single dollar of value earned.

    I propose we start with;

    "What do we pay out for?"
    A: Daegonner pays out for achieving F Top 1.

    Then, "What is F top 1?"
    A: F Top 1 is the placement "1" on the Factions Top Leaderboard.

    Next, "How is the leader board decided?"
    A: The leaderboard is decided based on who has the most value.

    Well, if the server only recognizes the leader as the winner of the F top 1 prize (they are the only one who receives a single dollar of money from the server), we must infer that the leader of the faction is the only one who actually holds a claim to the value, in the server's eyes.

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    Claim 3: Why is this important?

    If we can establish with 100% certainty using only logic that the leader is the only one who holds a claim to the value gained by the faction, then we can define insiding properly, and move forward with that.

    Insiding is essentially "stealing", however the term has been rebranded to mean "stealing from a faction/group" in this case. The question on everyone's mind is can the leader inside?

    I submit it's impossible for a leader to inside their own faction, as stealing from oneself is a logical impossibility. Let's explain:

    Stealing at its core involves the transfer of ownership of a physical item from one person to another. For example, I can steal a potato, and the physical potato is transferred from the person who had it, to me.

    Since stealing from yourself is transferring an item from yourself to yourself, which is a paradox (impossible), you cannot steal from yourself.

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    Claim 4: If you cannot steal from yourself, you thus cannot INSIDE from yourself. This isn't a leap, or an inferrence, the two words are synonyms- they mean the same thing, therefore proof has already been provided.

    But, regardless, here's the reasoning:

    If you cannot steal from yourself, and we have set precedent that the owner of the faction is the only one who truly "owns" the items (See Claims 1-2), we thus reach the conclusion that an owner CANNOT inside themself.

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    So what does all this mean? We've looked through this and created a logically sound argument defining insiding, ownership of a faction, and why a faction owner cannot inside, because it is a logical impossibility (a paradox).

    If a faction owner is thus not insiding, how can we define them taking their own items, and moving them to another faction, which they then join.

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    Claim 5:

    Since we've been able to prove that you cannot inside your own faction, the only other way to define willingly giving another faction your wealth OTHER than insiding, is transferring (giving) it. If the Owner had unclaimed everything, for example, and left, until the items were recovered by another player, they would still be owned by the owner. Confused? This is the phenomenon known as Schrodinger's Cat. Research that if you'd like. If you're not confused, let's continue. When another player were to find the items unclaimed, the items would have then been TRANSFERRED from the original owner, to Redemption, in this case.

    However, since the owner took the items and JOINED redemption, it was not a transference of items as the user kept the items, and became part of a larger whole with the items, which ONLY they could have owned. His wealth was absorbed by the faction, and he no longer holds claim to any wealth, as he is not the owner of the faction Redemption.

    This is supported by logic, and previous proofs, so it can be regarded as a LOGICAL INFERENCE.


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    Finally, to wrap up, we can read the rules cited in this report:

    You & your faction can not give more than $5,000,000 in any form collectively to another faction, if the faction is or will be placed on f top page 1. If a player gets given a stack of TNT or 1 piece on one occasion by another faction member that won’t be strikeable and whenever it comes to TNT it’ll be up to the Strike Team to decide if it’s punishable or not.

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    I have proven, in my opinion, beyond the shadow of a doubt that:
    -> An owner is the only one who truly owns an item in a faction.
    -> Members have no claim to items, which is why it is "stealing/insiding" if they leave a faction and join another with items.
    -> An owner cannot inside, as they own everything, so therefore it is simply TRANSFERRING items if they leave their faction and join another.

    My final inference takes us to the definition of merging:

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    WHAT COUNTS, THE TL;DR-

    My personal opinion is therefore that given all circumstances, this was not an inside, not a transference of ownership (as he joined the faction rather than giving the items and quitting), but rather a merger, as he was the owner, and his items were absorbed into another faction which he joined.

    It could ALSO be viewed as something entirely separate, as with my own argument I can prove that he no longer owns the items, as he is not the owner of the new faction. HOWEVER, we can go around the other way, and say that Redemption's current owner WAS responsible for merging, as he DOES own the items.

    Therefore, it is a JUDGEMENT CALL whether or not the Owner of the faction merged, however it is a my PERSONAL OPINION, that at the very least, the Faction Redemption itself is responsible for a merger, though not ANY of it's members, including the person who joined, EXCEPT FOR the Owner of Redemption, who allowed the merger to take place.

    I don't think I can stress enough that my opinion and this post is not reflective of the decision that will/has potentially already been made in this case. Any harassment of either party in-game is punishable.

    NOTE: At the time of posting this, TnT enables very soon, and you should all be focused on securing your bases, and getting a good night's rest for tomorrow. Do not let this keep you up, as Far is a GREAT manager, and I have 100% faith that any decision he makes is the right one (even if I don't understand it right away), either way it goes- and you should as well. Get some sleep, and have a great rest of your night.

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    I will only reply to this thread via DMs (to prevent a conversation/potential flame war).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  7. Swifx

    Swifx New Member

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    Big +1 on my part, what they did was highly unfair.
     
  8. Endless Pvpz

    Endless Pvpz New Member

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    this was an inside not a merge this is clear. If it was a merge how come none of the flare members are in redemption?
     
  9. Endless Pvpz

    Endless Pvpz New Member

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    We did not combine
     
  10. Endless Pvpz

    Endless Pvpz New Member

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    *TO ANY STAFF READING THIS* Obviously everyone is gonna vote for disqualification because they want themselves to win even if they agree it wasnt a merge they will still vote that it was unfair.
     
  11. Phoenix

    Phoenix New Member

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    The faction Lolicon combined their faction value with redemption,
    You didnt merge with flare, If you read what I said then you would understand what I meant. You are absolutely wrong, You merged faction value with Lolicons, after they insided flare. You merged faction value, not faction members. Whether the staff consider you combining value as merging or not, you still broke rule 11 by having them give you 600mil. You are only allowed to give 5mil worth of wealth. All you just did was make yourself look stupid. I agree some people may vote yes to get closer to ftop, however there should be no need of a poll in the first place. You broke the rules, and there are punishments listed with those rules.
     

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  12. Chaapp/Piggy

    Chaapp/Piggy New Member

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    this whole situation was bs ngl rawr xD lol lit dab fam